[enigmawing]

If you are a member of deviantART, please take a moment to read my journal http://enigmawing.de...ournal/9081122/ and respond there in some way.  If you're not a member, please read it anyway.  Any support there as well as here is very much needed and appreciated.  Some (but not all) of the deleted pics include:


http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1382/kpshj1uw.th.jpg  http://img309.imageshack.us/img309/7901/lydiacr7ac.th.png  http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1356/kpurpler3dm.th.png  http://img279.imageshack.us/img279/1236/icycr8dh.th.png  http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5995/applefr6jf.th.png  http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/6757/crysta23jd.th.png  
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/1492/sesamichanr8tu.th.png  http://img315.imageshack.us/img315/4421/atutcolor47ht.th.png


Yet other pieces were left in tact, like these for example (you'd think they'd be consitant here):


http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2233/erinesurancer6cq.th.png  http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/985/blueda0wk.th.png  http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8025/nadiasecretcr5vy.th.png  http://img311.imageshack.us/img311/1589/shegoseatr1io.th.png  http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4004/gothtinkd6iy.th.png  http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/9615/irmafr7jv.th.png  


To give you an idea about how careful I am when I submit a deviation, here are a couple of examples that I chose NOT to submit because of the "sexual touching" involved (as tame as they are):


http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/9197/dariajanec23ou.th.png  http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4492/avc2jv.th.png

Well, do I have a right to complain about their removal or not?  Is my letter to them appropriate?  (A copy of it is included in the linked journal entry.)  I seem to have a few replies there already. . .

Let the debates begin!!!!

[Darth-BAW]

That's a damn shame, E.  These are some of your best works, and the get pulled for nips and ass.  ::)

Screw, DA, dearest, JABville is where you're loved the most!  :-*

[duck2k]

We talked about it on the chat - yes you have a right to complain.  As you said, you have taken all the proper precautions before posting these in the first place. >:(

[Dart]

As you pointed out, I think the most striking aspect is their total lack of consistancy. There is no defined pattern to what they deleted.

Was there some sort of change over in administrators there? Are they just trying to scare artists into being more reserved and mundane?

What would happen if you changed the file names and reposted them in protest? I think you deserve an explanation from the administrators at dA, as well as an apology.

I hope everything turns out well for you, EW. Please post the outcome of your dispute here, IF they even bother to respond.

Dart

[chewbaca]

How is it that a website called deviant art would cut sum barely their T&A when the degree of talent is very substantial. I mean what deviation are they talking about  maby some one should try posting a rendition of the David or Venus rising    

[Punpun]

I agree. Fight the powers that be, EW! If they remove artwork that falls within the limits of their written rules, then why even have rules at all?

[chewbaca]

I just realized that one of the pulled pix is of a non human that is probably older than MJB  

[Diablito]

Yikes! An EW flood. These are all great. Nice to see them all at once. There a couple I've never seen before. What a treat!

Diablito

[Administrator]

EW dearest, you can get a website with Lunar Pages for about ten bucks a month. I vote for you having your own website with your work, instead of letting others judge your works artistic value. Lunar Pages has always been good to our spongebob site and they have no quarrels with adult content.

[enigmawing]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I appreciate all the feedback.

I think that hosting pics at dA is yet another good way to get my art out there, um, sort of a way to advertize myself and become better known; I don't plan on it being the main place to post my work.  However, I've had over 25,000 pageviews and I've been added to people's fave lists over 1,300 times there, and I'm pretty proud of that.  Of course, I'll be even more proud once I have my own site up.  

What irks me about dA is that I don't think they're being fair.  I'll always have this place and WWOEC to post anything I want, and eventually my own site of course, but that's not the point; I was following their guidelines to the best of my ability.  Heh, I dunno, maybe I was expecting too much.  We'll see if they bother to send a reply.

Ah, such is life.  ::)

[ScreamingMeme]

Mmmmmmm. Damn, I don't know.

On the one hand, they're called DeviantArt.

On the other hand, when I first stumbled onto it, they were bending over forward AND backward to remind everyone they weren't a pornsite. When E-Wing first put up a little racier stuff, I was surprised it stayed up.

Since then, I've seen a LOT of "adult content" there: not hardcore porn, of course, but plenty of nudity, including photography. In the past month or so, it seems to have become an absolute flood.

So I can see why they might overreact.

But that doesn't change the fact that it's overreacting. I'm just learning about this now; I have to go visit E-Wing's page and run through my list of DA favorites. The kitten photography one (http://wazabees.deviantart.com/) is probably safe, but the rest--mostly Kim Possible fanart--may be endangered.

There's a lot of stuff that doesn't even border on "adult" material that have gotten in trouble: Goofmore created a sweet little pic of Ron kissing Kim's pregnant belly. The belly and the mole rat are the only things that were naked. It's gone now, because a fellow DA artist found this HORRIBLY OFFENSIVE and went on a f***ing CRUSADE over it until Goofmore just took the thing down to end the flaming.

And then there's all the Kigo. RinaCat, for one, doesn't do a lick of nudity--well, once: years ago, she did a little pic of Raven about to tongue Starfire's bare breast--but how much crap may fly over the horrifying depiction of *shock* lesbian love?

I will respect their right to control their content. But DA artists and guests need to do everything within reason to keep them from going overboard, and hold them to some sort of consistency.

EDIT: Ran over there to check things. Your message to DA was perfect, E-Wing. (Well, you misspelled "penetration," but the TONE was perfect. ;))

[enigmawing]

SM- Heh, me and my typos!  ;)

Oh yeah, I clearly remember the fuss over Goofmore's pic and commented on the turn of events.  Some people have nothing better to do than make the worst possible assumptions.   ::)

I'm familiar with Rinacat but never saw the pic you mention.  I can totally see people freaking out over it, though.

*     *     *

Ok, just went back to review their policies yet again.  Some of the pages had me running around in circles, but I finally found these paragraphs:

Sexual themes.
This means no displays of sexual acts of any kind, no displays of masturbation, erections or sexually oriented toys, no displays of male ejaculates or excess female lubricants and no other pornographic or explicit sexual posing or displays. For underage models, this rule is applicable even if the model is not nude; as explained above minors are not allowed to be depicted in a sexual way regardless of the context.

Gratuitous nudity.
This is a vague guideline, but in essence we are actively encouraging the submission of 'artistic' nudes and not simple shots of naked people or genitals. Your nude submission should obviously possess some artistic merit as judged by a reviewing member of the staff. Most deviations which tend to be classified as gratuitous nudity are those in which the only evident purpose of the photograph is to display a person’s penis, testicles, vagina, breast, nipples, or buttocks.


Mr. Purple was the one deviation I wasn't so sure about from the beginning, but I figured it was okay because she was fully clothed. . . but it had been several months since I'd viewed the guidelines on that one.  My bad.  I even remember noting that I wouldn't get pissed if it got pulled because I was so uncertain about it.  But all these others too?!!

And they admit that their guideline on gratuitous nudity is vague, so shall I assume that they base it on whether or not they think the pieces are "classy enough?"  I've seen plenty of "Daily Deviations" (pieces that are chosen by the dA staff to be featured all over the site) that were more explicit than anything I've posted there, but the artistic merit of all of these is just opinion.  Upon reviewing all this, perhaps the Snow White piece is gratuitous, but the others remain questionable to me.  

I also believe that they should hold the right to control their content as they see fit, but if they're going to do that their guidelines need to be much more clear.  In addition to that I think they need a better notification system than just pulling artwork at the drop of a hat.

[Corpsicle]

Well said E  [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif], DA should clarify wot and wot not is acceptible, and If art is pulled, then  at leat an explanation of why should be sent to the offending Artist. that said I love ya work and I for one don't find it offensive in the slightest, Beauty as they say is in the eye of the beholder or in your case the penholder, keep em coming E we all love ya babe ;D

[ScreamingMeme]

Re RinaCat's Starfire/Raven pic: nevermind--it's one of her oldest works at DA, and besides...just looked it up, and while it's clear that they're both nekkid, there's not so much as a nipple visible. My dirty imagination...not reality. Rina just seems* so utterly innocent! (She would not like this place, I fear. *sigh*)

D----Z----**, on the other hand...his Kigo stuff at DA is nasty--and I mean that in a very good way. No blatant nudity, but he has one pic where in one panel Kim is pulling Shego's panties off with her teeth, and in another Shego is glomping Kim's thighs from behind and totally burying her face in Kim's bumcheeks.

A favorite of mine, to be sure--but clearly in violation of one the rules you've cited above, and that isn't even the one where Shego's got Kim all "ponied" up in S&M gear and preparing to take her for a ride, or the one showing Bonnie masturbating in her sleep as she dreams of Kim presenting herself for a spanking. (*fans self rapidly*)

Your "Mr. Purple" is freaking Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood compared to that. But because of the shape of Mr. Purple...*snort* Maybe you should've used vegetables instead. But I don't think Kim would use an eggplant, and a cucumber isn't purple...

On the flip side, SapphicsPencil has done some gentle, tasteful, incredibly beautiful Kigo stuff at DA--but you can see a nipple in one, and MAYBE I'M JUST BEING PARANOID AND IT'S ONLY TEMPORARY, BUT ALL OF HER WORKS ARE MISSING FROM HER DA PAGE RIGHT NOW. Or maybe I'm NOT just being paranoid, and she's gotten some variety of the DA scattershot treatment.

Over a nipple.

EDIT: False alarm, forgive the all-caps screaming. I was being paranoid, and it was only temporary.

*Word added because appearances can be deceiving.
**Name eliminated to prevent potential problems with trolls complaining to DA. Sorry, but if EnigmaWing or SapphicsPencil left DA, I'd still have another place to look for their work. Not so with this artist.

[duck2k]

Down with establishment (that's DA) E! (That's you) Revolution NOW! ;D